[brydeemer]

Read anything new and interesting lately?

Listen here

Bry

[mguy1977]

Thanks Peter for sharing your opinion on a book you really care about & hopefully giving others a good starting point to recommend on Legion w/ Johns & Frank's arc on Action to give the new series a chance. I hope other geeks review it when they get it from there DCBS boxes.

Waiting for Tuesday/Wednesday to read my copy from DCBS.

Matthew

[David D.]

Great show, guys.

For the new VS matchups, I would have to go with Bullseye over Deadshot, for sure. Not that Deadshot isn't tough, but he doesn't seem anywhere near as fanatical as Bullseye, and definitely seems more tied to his equipment. I feel like Bullseye could improvise, and do more if it got hand to hand.

Definitely going GA & BC over H & M. And I would even vote that way if we are choosing the Grell period where Canary doesn't have her scream (because I don't always give the edge just because someone has a power-- I mean, for example I think Hawkeye could take out Angar the Screamer, for example), and Ollie is using no trick arrows at all. I just think the two of them are tougher, more experienced, and have had to go up against greater opponents. I like Hawkeye and Mockingbird, but I see Green Arrow and Black Canary taking this one.

And I definitely still give it to Cap over Deathstroke.

Fun show, guys.

[Julian Lytle]

I don't like Civil War but that is it up to be the best event ever.

[mguy1977]

Blackest Night is up there as ONE of the best DC events out there.

Matthew

[bamfbamf]

HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE BIG BANG THEORY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

do you think the nerdy jokes are too contrived???

This post has been edited by bamfbamf: 27 May 2010 - 07:37 PM

[Peter]

I don't like Civil War but that is it up to be the best event ever.

Although it wasn't made clear in this ep, I said Blackest Night was DC's best event.

In terms of sales Civil War is definitely up there as one of Marvel's better events. Especially for re-igniting their fanbase. But it slipped on many other levels. For me, Secret Invasion was Marvel's best event in terms of marketing, editorial, execution (on time, etc), build up, etc. Civil War had very little logical build up. Both ended poopy. Civil War had more after-effects. But Secret Invasion gets the edge. This one's a close one though.

[Julian Lytle]

Although it wasn't made clear in this ep, I said Blackest Night was DC's best event.

In terms of sales Civil War is definitely up there as one of Marvel's better events. Especially for re-igniting their fanbase. But it slipped on many other levels. For me, Secret Invasion was Marvel's best event in terms of marketing, editorial, execution (on time, etc), build up, etc. Civil War had very little logical build up. Both ended poopy. Civil War had more after-effects. But Secret Invasion gets the edge. This one's a close one though.

You know I might have to go with Infinite Crisis then, cause right now going by the long tail I think it did more. Those set minis into the event were so dope that Marvel had to copy it with Annihilation. Maybe if BN does well a year from now maybe I'll change my mind.

I can't stand SI, it made me leave marvel for a whole year in terms of buying any of there books.

[Ultimate Thor]

Jamie mentioned on this episode that Unknown Soldier was ending soon, if this is true words cannot explain how sad I am. This was one of my favourite current books. I can only hope that it comes to a natural conclusion and isn't rushed to tie things up because of low sales.

[Peter]

You know I might have to go with Infinite Crisis then, cause right now going by the long tail I think it did more. Those set minis into the event were so dope that Marvel had to copy it with Annihilation. Maybe if BN does well a year from now maybe I'll change my mind.

I can't stand SI, it made me leave marvel for a whole year in terms of buying any of there books.

The lead up to Infinite Crisis was definitely strong. But the overall marketing of Blackest Night trumps it (rings, clever tie-ins like resurrected titles, creation of new characters/concepts, etc). Also, the art in Infinite Crisis was inconsistent. Gotta look at all angles.

With that same sales argument, Civil War would top Secret Invasion. That's just fact. But the lead-in/tie-ins, etc were handled better in SI.

I don't base these things on likes/dislikes.

[Julian Lytle]

The lead up to Infinite Crisis was definitely strong. But the overall marketing of Blackest Night trumps it (rings, clever tie-ins like resurrected titles, creation of new characters/concepts, etc). Also, the art in Infinite Crisis was inconsistent. Gotta look at all angles.

With that same sales argument, Civil War would top Secret Invasion. That's just fact. But the lead-in/tie-ins, etc were handled better in SI.

I don't base these things on likes/dislikes.

BN had good "in-event marketing" and IC had great "pre-event marketing", but not all those tie in books sold with those rings. I have all the rings and none of the issues, also I think the great IC fold into 52 was great. BN kinda has me cutting titles. And I'm seeing that from others also.

[Peter]

BN had good "in-event marketing" and IC had great "pre-event marketing", but not all those tie in books sold with those rings. I have all the rings and none of the issues, also I think the great IC fold into 52 was great. BN kinda has me cutting titles. And I'm seeing that from others also.

BN had great "pre-event" marketing. They advertised it at the end of Sinestro Corps War, built it up in the GL titles and had people clamoring for that first issue. IC definitely had a cross-company pre-event mojo going no doubt. But there was definite buzz for BN before hand. Marketing isn't just the issues - it's TShirts, toys and yes - the rings. Which you have. What merchandise did you get during Infinite Crisis? Point to BN.

So a few of your fellow readers are cutting out after BN. Did you see the chaos on the forums after Infinite Crisis 7?? BN had nowhere near the backlash things like IC, Secret Invasion or hell, even Lost had. lol

[Julian Lytle]

BN had great "pre-event" marketing. They advertised it at the end of Sinestro Corps War, built it up in the GL titles and had people clamoring for that first issue. IC definitely had a cross-company pre-event mojo going no doubt. But there was definite buzz for BN before hand. Marketing isn't just the issues - it's TShirts, toys and yes - the rings. Which you have. What merchandise did you get during Infinite Crisis? Point to BN.

So a few of your fellow readers are cutting out after BN. Did you see the chaos on the forums after Infinite Crisis 7?? BN had nowhere near the backlash things like IC, Secret Invasion or hell, even Lost had. lol

I bought both cases of the IC action figures, I own none of the BN stuff (even though some stuff is hot). They advertised it in SCW but man that was a loooooooonnnng wait. I was glad it came out for sure but toward the end of agent orange it was getting a bit tedious. Remember I was given every ring, not a penny spent on them. The shirts was a good look ( even though I won't buy one ) also IC gave us EMOBOY PRIME, ahhhh feel that awesomeness. BN doesn't have it yet.

SI was just bad and that's real talk, besides the Yu art that whole thing was just a big set up for a really good status quo. BN was decent, but I do agree with the caller that FC was a greater work even if the public now doesn't care for it (even though them hardcovers be selling). We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[GreenSkeletonII]

Guys,

When you do Scott Pilgrim for Book of the Month, I IMPLORE YOU to read at least the first two. If you read just the first book, you may be rocked by the tonal shift that happens somewhere in the book. Some may love it, some may hate it. I hear many people get turned off of the series if they only read the first book.

The second book helps level the tone of the series and will acclimate you for further reading.

Also keep note that the movie encapsulates all six books.

[matchkitjohn]

Guys,

When you do Scott Pilgrim for Book of the Month, I IMPLORE YOU to read at least the first two. If you read just the first book, you may be rocked by the tonal shift that happens somewhere in the book. Some may love it, some may hate it. I hear many people get turned off of the series if they only read the first book.

The second book helps level the tone of the series and will acclimate you for further reading.

Also keep note that the movie encapsulates all six books.

I agree. I read the first one and had the second available to read right away and it helped. Then burned through the third and fourth. Guess that indicates I loved it.

[the_standard]

Gotta agree with Bryan Universal War One was really great, check it out if you like Scifi without capes comics.

[JonathanCrites]

I was intrigued about Round 2 Models and checked out their website - I am definitely going to try and get all 6 versions of the USS Enterprise Model Kits. I have not built a model since I was a kid but all six are in the same scale which means you could have them all on a shelf together and accurately show the progression of the ship.

For some reason I think this seems completely awesome. Looks like none of them are available for purchase yet.

This post has been edited by JonathanCrites: 28 May 2010 - 07:47 PM

[Peter]

I bought both cases of the IC action figures, I own none of the BN stuff (even though some stuff is hot). They advertised it in SCW but man that was a loooooooonnnng wait. I was glad it came out for sure but toward the end of agent orange it was getting a bit tedious. Remember I was given every ring, not a penny spent on them. The shirts was a good look ( even though I won't buy one ) also IC gave us EMOBOY PRIME, ahhhh feel that awesomeness. BN doesn't have it yet.

SI was just bad and that's real talk, besides the Yu art that whole thing was just a big set up for a really good status quo. BN was decent, but I do agree with the caller that FC was a greater work even if the public now doesn't care for it (even though them hardcovers be selling). We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You bought the IC toys AFTER the event. They weren't around during the event. That's not marketing. You didn't pay for the rings but you have them anyway because you wanted them. Look at Jamie - he was the most vocal about the rings during their promotion - but he has them all on his mic stand in the studio. THAT'S marketing.

Again - you're speaking in terms of likes/dislikes and basing it on your personal experience. It really isn't a question of agree/disagreeing. Look at it analytically. Blackest Night covered all the major bases of a major event and won out.

[Magneto_Guevara]

Aight, I got major problems with what you said about Blackest Night and Final Crisis, but I'll start things off on some positive notes:

-It just strikes me to take a moment to thank you guys for all you do. You put in so much work putting out these podcasts, you make so many people's drives to and from work, and long tedious waits in supermarket lines, so much easier to bear. You guys are the kings of comic podcasting--that's obvious, but every now and then you fellas deserve to be praised like that.

-Second, that Acton Comics storyline with the Legion is fantastic. I'm actually in the process of rereading it now. It's a shame Johns and Frank's run on this series couldn't've lasted another year or two. As much as Secret Origin is a mini-landmark, their current-continuity Superman was the best regular Superman title since...oh...since Alan Moore's Supreme (which is the best "Superman" run of all time). :-P

-Who would win between Beta Ray and Killowog? THE FANS, that's who! Nah, actually Beta Ray would SMASH him. This would be a cool fight, but I don't think it's THAT close. Beta Ray wields a far more unique and offensive-oriented power than Killowog does. Killowog's an offensive presence as well, but he'd need to use extensive defensive skills to withstand even ONE of Beta Ray's attacks, and I just don't see Killowog as displaying those sort of coping skills.

-Yeah, your ideas about what's going to happen in events are really good. Even with events and series I don't really care THAT much about (Siege, Superman: Secret Origin), your episodes are very entertaining; in some cases you pull me in and make me care about the outcomes of these stories more than the comic companies themselves do.

-Okay, there's my main beef with you guys:

What's all this about Blackest Night being the best event because of merchandising and things like that?? Is Star Wars the best sci-fi movie franchise because of the marketing and merchandise? I guess Episodes I-III were DAMN GREAT since they 1) got fans excited, 2) sold merchandise (more than the original trilogy), and 3) where marketed really well.

Actually, by your logic the first few years of SPAWN should count as the BEST COMIC SERIES EVER. Spawn sold amazingly well. It was marketed well. It was EXCITING, like Blackest Night was. It led to a great line of action figures with the best detail in action-figure history at the time. It led to a cartoon series, and a movie. Lots of people bought Spawn shirts. It defined a moment in time. It had amazing art. So there you go, if Blackest Night is the best event ever, then the first few years of Spawn must be the best run ever. I'm being facetious, but just marinate on that for a second.

The thing is, I really LIKE Blackest Night. I had a hell of a great time with it. And I think the marketing and merchandising of it was pretty cool. I definitely don't have a problem with someone saying it was the best event ever, but to fixate on THOSE reasons?

You can't just dismiss how BN PANDERED to readers. Every four pages there was a SPLASH PAGE, whether the moment deserved a splash page or not. The whole event was a series of random "power" endowments, and all the NEW powers and color-changes really only amounted to different types of generic power blasts. A series of almost random fights and random power blasts temporarily taking out certain characters. This shock and awe is cool, but it's basically just pandering to readers stuck "in the moment". During the series (I'm not talking about the resurrections at the very end) did any of the changes mean anything? What was the point of the new Corps? Just to pander to readers, to give them big goofy smiles for a few pages, to see Scarecrow as a Yellow Lantern and Luthor as an Orange Lantern--FOR NO REASON. Luthor argues with Larflees to give the readers goofy smiles, but it's out of character because the Luthor we see is really STUPID. What was the point of Sinestro being a White Lantern? Just to pander to readers, so they can have an oh-sh*t moment, because it had hardly any impact on the actual story. It was just another random blasting power for them to deal with. Again, I LIKED IT, but most of the story was pretty thin stuff.

Final Crisis has MANY flaws on many levels, but it definitely has more thoughtfulness and intellectual content than Blackest Night does. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying FC is a "better event" than BN, but to say that you're "not going to win any points" by making the comparison is just short-sighted. FC has (SOME) actual literary merit; students will write (have already written?) theses on Final Crisis. In comparison, BN is the equivalent of a child smashing action figures together for 350 pages. And let's not rewrite history, up until issue 6 most people LIKED FC and were intrigued by it. Then in the final issue, issue-and-a-half certain things really fell apart. But I think people are projecting FC #7's failings on the event as a whole. Yes endings are important, but that's still a bit unfair.

So I'm just saying, don't act like BN is near-flawless, and don't act like FC doesn't have ANY advantage over BN. BN was orchestrated MUCH better and with much more consistency on every level. But FC is the rare occurrence (like your caller said) of a genuine piece of (imperfect) avant garde art getting some shine in the mainstream. The Twin Peaks example is a good one. You know that show LOST you guys liked so much? Without Twin Peaks sowing the seeds for a complicated mystery show like that in primetime, there wouldn't have been a LOST! And I think a lot of Twin Peaks episodes were as crappy as certain aspects of Final Crisis. But you know what, Final Crisis at least TRIED to do some things that were different. Yeah, things didn't come out anywhere near perfect, but it sure as hell deserves more respect, on ONE level, than smashing action figures together for 350 pages, even if BN did a superb job illustrating that routine, punctuating almost every single action with a splash page. And yeah, some of FC's "intellectual content" can be dismissed as "pseudo-science" weirdness and Morrison-being-Morrison, but there is indeed SOME innovation going on there, SOME new ground being broken, whether readers want to understand that or not; it wasn't all "gibberish". Your generic zombie story doesn't have anything to compete with FC in terms of originality and creativity. BN wins on every other level (cohesion, consistency, illustration, marketing, ability to sucker people out of money, ability to make grown men put cheap plastic rings on their fingers), and I'd even say it probably wins overall, but there's a heady level or two on which Final Crisis is the equivalent of a grad-level seminar, and BN is pre-school.

This post has been edited by Magneto_Guevara: 28 May 2010 - 09:23 PM

[Peter]

Aight, I got major problems with what you said about Blackest Night and Final Crisis, but I'll start things off on some positive notes:

What's all this about Blackest Night being the best event because of merchandising and things like that??

Go back and listen to Blackest Night 8. It's not only because of merchandising. That's just what the conversation in this thread is picking up. There's a lot more to it.

And again - I didn't say best event ever. I said best DC event.

I'll be waiting.

PS/ You lost me when I got to "pandered to readers" comment. That reads more like an emotional evaluation than a critical one. Especially considering how popular BN was across the board (girls, new DC readers, etc).

This isn't like I'm making these claims in a bubble. Conventions, feedback, voicemails, the forums, talking with store owners, other comic buyers that don't know CGS, podcasts, reviews, hell - Big Bang Theory! () - I've talked to a lot of people over the past year. BN - in that larger sense - is right up there with the excitement that happened with Infinite Crisis and Civil War. DC just perfected their event approach by layering in all kinds of angles that give BN the bump.

You can love it or hate it or like something else more (my heart will always be with Crisis), but the claim still stands. BN was DC's best event.