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Secret Wars 4 Talkback
#2
Ocean Doot 
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 05:18 PM
QUOTE (Bryan Deemer @ Apr 17 2009, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Secret Wars takes place in between Uncanny X-Men 180 and 181.
In UX 185, Rogue says she is 18 years old. So there's that answer.
It was established for the first time in Uncanny 165 that Magneto and Charles Xavier knew each other years and years ago -- and were, in fact, very good friends -- having fought Baron Strucker just after the end of WWII. Back then, Magneto's real name was given as "Magnus." Secret Wars was actually the first time that we saw Xavier and Magneto interact after the revelation that they knew each other in a time before X-Men #1. I don't get the sense that Shooter knew quite how to play the relationship in light of Claremont's revelation, especially since Claremont himself had not yet developed anything beyond the initial reveal.
The name "Erik" as Magneto's real identity was made up by writers much, much later. I'm thinking at least eight years after Secret Wars. (Most definitely after Claremont had quit the X-books in 1991.)
#3
Jamie D
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Posted 17 April 2009 - 09:28 PM
QUOTE (Ocean Doot @ Apr 17 2009, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Secret Wars takes place in between Uncanny X-Men 180 and 181.
In UX 185, Rogue says she is 18 years old. So there's that answer.
It was established for the first time in Uncanny 165 that Magneto and Charles Xavier knew each other years and years ago -- and were, in fact, very good friends -- having fought Baron Strucker just after the end of WWII. Back then, Magneto's real name was given as "Magnus." Secret Wars was actually the first time that we saw Xavier and Magneto interact after the revelation that they knew each other in a time before X-Men #1. I don't get the sense that Shooter knew quite how to play the relationship in light of Claremont's revelation, especially since Claremont himself had not yet developed anything beyond the initial reveal.
The name "Erik" as Magneto's real identity was made up by writers much, much later. I'm thinking at least eight years after Secret Wars. (Most definitely after Claremont had quit the X-books in 1991.)
In UX 185, Rogue says she is 18 years old. So there's that answer.
It was established for the first time in Uncanny 165 that Magneto and Charles Xavier knew each other years and years ago -- and were, in fact, very good friends -- having fought Baron Strucker just after the end of WWII. Back then, Magneto's real name was given as "Magnus." Secret Wars was actually the first time that we saw Xavier and Magneto interact after the revelation that they knew each other in a time before X-Men #1. I don't get the sense that Shooter knew quite how to play the relationship in light of Claremont's revelation, especially since Claremont himself had not yet developed anything beyond the initial reveal.
The name "Erik" as Magneto's real identity was made up by writers much, much later. I'm thinking at least eight years after Secret Wars. (Most definitely after Claremont had quit the X-books in 1991.)
Thanks for clearing that up
#4
- Group: Guests
Posted 18 April 2009 - 01:14 AM
Wow. I hadn't known you guys were doing Secret Wars until this popped up on my iPod after syncing it this morning. This was one of the first Marvel "proper" series that I picked up, and fittingly enough, #4 was the first issue I bought.
Up until this point, I hadn't bought much, if any, of the superhero books from Marvel - or DC for that matter. As I stated in the "How did you get started reading DC?" thread, I was put off by the high issue numbers and all the backstory I would have missed. (I still have to sit and watch the end credits of movies when I go see them. I'm a completist.) I was reading G.I. Joe, Transformers, Strikeforce: Morituri, the 'Nam, and Psi-Force, but nothing that wasn't new. (some of those may have come after, it all blurs now)
But that cover (gotta agree, this was the best cover of the lot) just hooked me, and once I started flipping through it, I had to have it. I loved this series and having gone back to re-read it a few years ago, it holds up relatively well, though it does reek of the exposition-era, which was a product of Jim Shooter's tenure as EIC, and I don't think I would be able to make it through the series again just because of this. But some of the ideas were great - in this issue, Reed angering the Hulk so that his strength would increase - and being able to get introductions to so many characters at once was great for a kid like me who was just really getting into comics. I've still got the original issues (having found the first three in one of those many Mile High ads that were in all of the books then) and this one is the most tattered.
Shooter definitely had something though, as a writer, because I remember thoroughly enjoying the Valiant Universe when it started, but right after Unity, when Shooter was deposed, there was a change in the books that I could not put my finger on, but they weren't exciting any more. The only difference was that Jim Shooter wasn't writing them. I followed him to Warriors of Plasm and some of the other stuff he did with his later company, but that didn't last long either. Thought about getting the new Legion run, but that seemed to stall before it got going - though I am out of the loop of the superhero universes today, for the most part.
As for the art. I read recently - it might have been one of those Comic Book Legends Revealed from CBR - that Mike Zeck did fall behind on the art with this series and I imagine the issues with Bob Layton's art most likely arose from him having to rush it. Can't say for sure, but like it was said in the episode, Layton is a solid artist and the fact that he was having trouble with anatomy and perspective - especially with Iron Man, which is "his" character - I have to believe that it came down to editorial realizing too late that Zeck would not get the issue in on time and taggin Bob Layton to throw it together "in a weekend." This was a time when late books were not such an issue, due mainly to fill-in artists like this.
Anyway. Enjoyable episode. It almost makes me want to go back and check this series out again. But I think I'll just check in with the podcast and enjoy it that way.
Thanks guys,
chris
Up until this point, I hadn't bought much, if any, of the superhero books from Marvel - or DC for that matter. As I stated in the "How did you get started reading DC?" thread, I was put off by the high issue numbers and all the backstory I would have missed. (I still have to sit and watch the end credits of movies when I go see them. I'm a completist.) I was reading G.I. Joe, Transformers, Strikeforce: Morituri, the 'Nam, and Psi-Force, but nothing that wasn't new. (some of those may have come after, it all blurs now)
But that cover (gotta agree, this was the best cover of the lot) just hooked me, and once I started flipping through it, I had to have it. I loved this series and having gone back to re-read it a few years ago, it holds up relatively well, though it does reek of the exposition-era, which was a product of Jim Shooter's tenure as EIC, and I don't think I would be able to make it through the series again just because of this. But some of the ideas were great - in this issue, Reed angering the Hulk so that his strength would increase - and being able to get introductions to so many characters at once was great for a kid like me who was just really getting into comics. I've still got the original issues (having found the first three in one of those many Mile High ads that were in all of the books then) and this one is the most tattered.
Shooter definitely had something though, as a writer, because I remember thoroughly enjoying the Valiant Universe when it started, but right after Unity, when Shooter was deposed, there was a change in the books that I could not put my finger on, but they weren't exciting any more. The only difference was that Jim Shooter wasn't writing them. I followed him to Warriors of Plasm and some of the other stuff he did with his later company, but that didn't last long either. Thought about getting the new Legion run, but that seemed to stall before it got going - though I am out of the loop of the superhero universes today, for the most part.
As for the art. I read recently - it might have been one of those Comic Book Legends Revealed from CBR - that Mike Zeck did fall behind on the art with this series and I imagine the issues with Bob Layton's art most likely arose from him having to rush it. Can't say for sure, but like it was said in the episode, Layton is a solid artist and the fact that he was having trouble with anatomy and perspective - especially with Iron Man, which is "his" character - I have to believe that it came down to editorial realizing too late that Zeck would not get the issue in on time and taggin Bob Layton to throw it together "in a weekend." This was a time when late books were not such an issue, due mainly to fill-in artists like this.
Anyway. Enjoyable episode. It almost makes me want to go back and check this series out again. But I think I'll just check in with the podcast and enjoy it that way.
Thanks guys,
chris
#5
Ocean Doot
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Posted 18 April 2009 - 11:51 PM
QUOTE (Jamie D @ Apr 17 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for clearing that up
Glad I could help. And to correct my own post, the "Magneto/Xavier vs. Strucker in the 1940s" issue was Uncanny #161, not 165.
(It's a great issue, by the way.)
#6
Sandman
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Posted 19 April 2009 - 03:04 AM
When I read this story way back when I always thought that it seemed like the heroes had the villians really out classed. Thor, Hulk, Thing, She-Hulk, Colossus, Magneto, and Rouge. Not to mention Wolverine, Spidey, and the Human Torch. Back then I thought that the villians couldn't touch these guys. Of couse this was before Ultron had become the robot of the apocalypse. It might have seemed more even when the X-Men were supposed to be their own team, but when they joined the other heroes, it doesn't seem like the villians really stood a chance.
#7
AdrienVeidt
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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:15 PM
I've a hypothesis regarding the ongoing 'it's weird that character's acting that way' factor that the Geeks have been commenting on all along this series.
In this issue, Bry mentions it's weird that Maggy struggled to build a comb from random iron bits in the atmosphere; others have mentioned it's weird that Wolvie is acting all scrappy when he'd begun to grow out of that by the time this tale occurs in X-chronology, the Hulk is reverting back to his savage dumb nature, and Thing keeps reverting back and forth to human; plus other issues likely to come up.
Remember that this isn't Earth. Maggie's powers are gonna be completely fubar by the fact that Battleworld's magnetosphere is composed of bits of about 20 different planets, if not up to 50. Battleworld's mag-sphere is gonna look like a Pollack painting and there may indeed by drastically less ambient iron particles in the commingled atmosphere than on Earth (which I can't imagine is all that great anyway). Hell, assembling that comb could very easily have been the single hardest act Magneto's ever done, simply because he did off Earth.
As to the others, I'm thinking the Beyonder assembled Battleworld with a quality that causes everyone to revert to their most archetypal nature. He wants to understand more of the nature of good an evil, and how these individuals in particular handle that conflict in as pure and undiluted a nature as possible, or else he could simply have continued to watch Earth thru his dimensional break. To ensure that purity, he infuses the planet with something akin to a post-hypnotic suggestion that constantly whispers in everyone's subconscious to behave as they most secretly wish to behave.
For most of them, they pretty much do that anyway, esp the villains, so we don't see much of a change. But Wolvie has always been torn between his two natures; and the Hulk is the literal embodiment of that struggle, and Ben has always been torn between his hatred of his ugliness and his love of the rich life he's lived since becoming friends with Reed and being a member of the Fantastic Family.
In this issue, Bry mentions it's weird that Maggy struggled to build a comb from random iron bits in the atmosphere; others have mentioned it's weird that Wolvie is acting all scrappy when he'd begun to grow out of that by the time this tale occurs in X-chronology, the Hulk is reverting back to his savage dumb nature, and Thing keeps reverting back and forth to human; plus other issues likely to come up.
Remember that this isn't Earth. Maggie's powers are gonna be completely fubar by the fact that Battleworld's magnetosphere is composed of bits of about 20 different planets, if not up to 50. Battleworld's mag-sphere is gonna look like a Pollack painting and there may indeed by drastically less ambient iron particles in the commingled atmosphere than on Earth (which I can't imagine is all that great anyway). Hell, assembling that comb could very easily have been the single hardest act Magneto's ever done, simply because he did off Earth.
As to the others, I'm thinking the Beyonder assembled Battleworld with a quality that causes everyone to revert to their most archetypal nature. He wants to understand more of the nature of good an evil, and how these individuals in particular handle that conflict in as pure and undiluted a nature as possible, or else he could simply have continued to watch Earth thru his dimensional break. To ensure that purity, he infuses the planet with something akin to a post-hypnotic suggestion that constantly whispers in everyone's subconscious to behave as they most secretly wish to behave.
For most of them, they pretty much do that anyway, esp the villains, so we don't see much of a change. But Wolvie has always been torn between his two natures; and the Hulk is the literal embodiment of that struggle, and Ben has always been torn between his hatred of his ugliness and his love of the rich life he's lived since becoming friends with Reed and being a member of the Fantastic Family.
#8
- Group: Guests
Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:31 PM
QUOTE (AdrienVeidt @ Apr 22 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've a hypothesis regarding the ongoing 'it's weird that character's acting that way' factor that the Geeks have been commenting on all along this series.
In this issue, Bry mentions it's weird that Maggy struggled to build a comb from random iron bits in the atmosphere; others have mentioned it's weird that Wolvie is acting all scrappy when he'd begun to grow out of that by the time this tale occurs in X-chronology, the Hulk is reverting back to his savage dumb nature, and Thing keeps reverting back and forth to human; plus other issues likely to come up.
Remember that this isn't Earth. Maggie's powers are gonna be completely fubar by the fact that Battleworld's magnetosphere is composed of bits of about 20 different planets, if not up to 50. Battleworld's mag-sphere is gonna look like a Pollack painting and there may indeed by drastically less ambient iron particles in the commingled atmosphere than on Earth (which I can't imagine is all that great anyway). Hell, assembling that comb could very easily have been the single hardest act Magneto's ever done, simply because he did off Earth.
As to the others, I'm thinking the Beyonder assembled Battleworld with a quality that causes everyone to revert to their most archetypal nature. He wants to understand more of the nature of good an evil, and how these individuals in particular handle that conflict in as pure and undiluted a nature as possible, or else he could simply have continued to watch Earth thru his dimensional break. To ensure that purity, he infuses the planet with something akin to a post-hypnotic suggestion that constantly whispers in everyone's subconscious to behave as they most secretly wish to behave.
For most of them, they pretty much do that anyway, esp the villains, so we don't see much of a change. But Wolvie has always been torn between his two natures; and the Hulk is the literal embodiment of that struggle, and Ben has always been torn between his hatred of his ugliness and his love of the rich life he's lived since becoming friends with Reed and being a member of the Fantastic Family.
In this issue, Bry mentions it's weird that Maggy struggled to build a comb from random iron bits in the atmosphere; others have mentioned it's weird that Wolvie is acting all scrappy when he'd begun to grow out of that by the time this tale occurs in X-chronology, the Hulk is reverting back to his savage dumb nature, and Thing keeps reverting back and forth to human; plus other issues likely to come up.
Remember that this isn't Earth. Maggie's powers are gonna be completely fubar by the fact that Battleworld's magnetosphere is composed of bits of about 20 different planets, if not up to 50. Battleworld's mag-sphere is gonna look like a Pollack painting and there may indeed by drastically less ambient iron particles in the commingled atmosphere than on Earth (which I can't imagine is all that great anyway). Hell, assembling that comb could very easily have been the single hardest act Magneto's ever done, simply because he did off Earth.
As to the others, I'm thinking the Beyonder assembled Battleworld with a quality that causes everyone to revert to their most archetypal nature. He wants to understand more of the nature of good an evil, and how these individuals in particular handle that conflict in as pure and undiluted a nature as possible, or else he could simply have continued to watch Earth thru his dimensional break. To ensure that purity, he infuses the planet with something akin to a post-hypnotic suggestion that constantly whispers in everyone's subconscious to behave as they most secretly wish to behave.
For most of them, they pretty much do that anyway, esp the villains, so we don't see much of a change. But Wolvie has always been torn between his two natures; and the Hulk is the literal embodiment of that struggle, and Ben has always been torn between his hatred of his ugliness and his love of the rich life he's lived since becoming friends with Reed and being a member of the Fantastic Family.
That is fantastic. I love it.
#9
sickweeble
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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:56 PM
Awesome show! They did dress Rogue like an old lady! Overall, great issue. Can't for 5!!!
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