[Gargoyle]

Another reason Marvel should be a bit worried.

Although actually I think it's probably worse for companies outside the big two. After all if you've got the choice between ordering a trade of a well-known established comic or something a bit more independent then I would imagine bookstores will go with the big names.

Who knows, maybe this will be the final nudge some publishers need to start taking digital distribution seriously.

[TaCk]

Additionally, what was once waiting for the trade has become waiting for the hardcover or waiting for the Omnibus.

Exactly 100% correct!

[Steve Bryant]

Although actually I think it's probably worse for companies outside the big two. After all if you've got the choice between ordering a trade of a well-known established comic or something a bit more independent then I would imagine bookstores will go with the big names.

Not so much. The majority of revenue for indie publishers comes through the Diamond distribution system. The chain bookstores don't generate much for most of us.

[The Raph Radia]

Waiting for the hardcover is a new trend. I come across it at work, although it's still mostly people complaining about the hardcover and asking about the trade.

CGS' own Bryan Deemer is still waiting for the first hardcover of the Brubaker stuff, who knows when he'll get it?

[Solitaire Rose]

Not so much. The majority of revenue for indie publishers comes through the Diamond distribution system. The chain bookstores don't generate much for most of us.

It depends on the Indy. I would imagine that Fantagraphics (where the Peanuts books saved them from going under fi the rumors are to be believed) will take a much bigger hit than, say, Pure Imagination.

[Steve Bryant]

It depends on the Indy. I would imagine that Fantagraphics (where the Peanuts books saved them from going under fi the rumors are to be believed) will take a much bigger hit than, say, Pure Imagination.

There are exceptions, hence the use of the word "majority" rather than "all."

I believe that it you took all the indie comics publishers (excluding imprints of major book publishers, of course) and combined their sales, the majority of the books sold still come from the direct market.

[thefreakytiki]

... comics publishing economics are very similar to Marvel b/c of the oligopolistic nature of the genre.

Damn it Wood. Now I have to go find a dictionary.


the Tiki

[Dr. Gregski]

Waiting for the hardcover is a new trend. I come across it at work, although it's still mostly people complaining about the hardcover and asking about the trade.

I cannot stand hardcovers in most cases. In my experience the way they're bound you cannot fully open the book to appreciate some of the two page spreads.

I hate the new wait for the trade, lol j/k here's a hardcover; keep waiting for the trade stuff that goes on today.

I don't need Rulk in HC. Please, for the love of capitalism release the trade and the version three people want (hardcover) at the same time and let the freakin' market decide!

[Gargoyle]

I don't need Rulk in HC. Please, for the love of capitalism release the trade and the version three people want (hardcover) at the same time and let the freakin' market decide!

I do have to agree that I don't think particularly the Marvel Premiere and DC Hardcover releases serve any real purpose other than as a money making scheme. They contain little or no extra content, are not oversized and in DC's case are just an excuse to delay the trade by a year.

I can see the point of Omnibus, Absolute and oversized hardcovers for the collectors who really want the ultimate version of a book.

[chrisw]

I do have to agree that I don't think particularly the Marvel Premiere and DC Hardcover releases serve any real purpose other than as a money making scheme. They contain little or no extra content, are not oversized and in DC's case are just an excuse to delay the trade by a year.

I can see the point of Omnibus, Absolute and oversized hardcovers for the collectors who really want the ultimate version of a book.

I miss the days when Marvel would release two trades, then collect those in an oversized hardcover if the demand was there. I find most of the Premiere-sized hardcovers from Marvel and DC not worth the money. It's my least favorite of all the formats, and it irks me that I end up caving and buying so many DC titles published this way because the wait for the paperback is so ridiculously long.

[Gargoyle]

...and it irks me that I end up caving and buying so many DC titles published this way because the wait for the paperback is so ridiculously long.

I would dearly love to see analysis on the DC figures for the books which are HC and then traded. I wonder how many people drop off a title because they refuse to pay HC price but after waiting a year (or more) for the TPB it feels like the book has no relevance to what is going on and thus don't buy it at all.

If you take Batman & Son (which is the earliest one I remember going this route) as an example here are the first month sales figures for the HC and trade.

Batman & Son HC $24.99 DC 4,641
Batman & Son $14.99 DC 4,896

So are they getting two bites of the cherry or would a Batman & Son TPB released a year earlier have sold enough more copies to make up for the lower price? Looking at the previous Batman trade which was Face the Face it may initially look like DC have a point.

Batman Face The Face $14.99 DC 5,088

Less than half the volume for Batman & Son, is that because of Morrison coming onto the book or has it genuinely stimulated the market to generate more sales? Would take a more Mayo-esque brain than mine to sort that one out.

[Mothman]

Additionally, what was once waiting for the trade has become waiting for the hardcover or waiting for the Omnibus.

... or waiting for the trade because I don't want to spend so much $#@% money on a hardcover!

I definitely think Marvel is diluting their audience. I also think they're overdoing it on hardcover collections. Sure, it's nice to have a book in hardcover but it's also a more substantial financial commitment and unless a reader *really* likes a book, the price tag on a hardcover is offputting. It's especially discouraging if you just want to pick something up to see if you like it. The entry price on a trade makes that sort of experimentation a lot more affordable.


Jim

[Dr. Gregski]

... or waiting for the trade because I don't want to spend so much $#@% money on a hardcover!

I definitely think Marvel is diluting their audience. I also think they're overdoing it on hardcover collections. Sure, it's nice to have a book in hardcover but it's also a more substantial financial commitment and unless a reader *really* likes a book, the price tag on a hardcover is offputting. It's especially discouraging if you just want to pick something up to see if you like it. The entry price on a trade makes that sort of experimentation a lot more affordable.


Jim

Well, if you're ordering from DCBService or other online vendors you don't get taken for full MSRP. Still, I'd rather not have the hardback unless it's something exceptional and well crafted like the few Absolute Editions I own as Gargoyle has pointed out.

Another thing I hate about the hardcovers are the dust jackets. Oh how I despise dust jackets.

[Mothman]

Well, if you're ordering from DCBService or other online vendors you don't get taken for full MSRP. Still, I'd rather not have the hardback unless it's something exceptional and well crafted like the few Absolute Editions I own as Gargoyle has pointed out.

Another thing I hate about the hardcovers are the dust jackets. Oh how I despise dust jackets.

LOL! That's a strange thing to despise. What have you got against dust jackets?

Jim

[Bamf]

One thing to keep in mind re: the HC format is that a lot of times the number of times a book sees print (and the frequency in which it is done) is usually part of an exclusive contract.

For example, w/in one or two solicitations after DnA signed their exclusive w/ Marvel, Marvel put out the Nova Vol 1 HC that collects the first two trades. I thought that was odd because while DnA are awesome, they aren't "big" like some of Marvel's other heavy hitters, the art on Nova while good isn't done by an A lister and for the most part, sales of the flaccids have underwhelmed unfortunately. I chalked the book being one of the perks of being an exclusive at Marvel. Also, does Guardians of the Galaxy really need a HC? Why not go straight to trade? It's probably part of the exclusive deal...

then again, I may be full of crap.

[Steve Bryant]

One thing to keep in mind re: the HC format is that a lot of times the number of times a book sees print (and the frequency in which it is done) is usually part of an exclusive contract.

For example, w/in one or two solicitations after DnA signed their exclusive w/ Marvel, Marvel put out the Nova Vol 1 HC that collects the first two trades. I thought that was odd because while DnA are awesome, they aren't "big" like some of Marvel's other heavy hitters, the art on Nova while good isn't done by an A lister and for the most part, sales of the flaccids have underwhelmed unfortunately. I chalked the book being one of the perks of being an exclusive at Marvel. Also, does Guardians of the Galaxy really need a HC? Why not go straight to trade? It's probably part of the exclusive deal...

then again, I may be full of crap.

Good point. I've heard the CGS guys speculate to that effect, as well. Any confirmation as to the veracity of the theory...linkage..?

[iainclifford]

One thing to keep in mind re: the HC format is that a lot of times the number of times a book sees print (and the frequency in which it is done) is usually part of an exclusive contract.

For example, w/in one or two solicitations after DnA signed their exclusive w/ Marvel, Marvel put out the Nova Vol 1 HC that collects the first two trades. I thought that was odd because while DnA are awesome, they aren't "big" like some of Marvel's other heavy hitters, the art on Nova while good isn't done by an A lister and for the most part, sales of the flaccids have underwhelmed unfortunately. I chalked the book being one of the perks of being an exclusive at Marvel. Also, does Guardians of the Galaxy really need a HC? Why not go straight to trade? It's probably part of the exclusive deal...

then again, I may be full of crap.

I'm thinking of ebaying my first twelves issues of Nova and picking up the HC because I've got a problem. This double dipping is annoying because there are other books I could be buying. I don't want to buy a book twice but I've become an addict to Marvel oversized hardcover format.

The thing about DnA's cosmic books is that Nova and GotG, although not always related, are companion books. They'll both be part of the upcoming War of Kings and feature similar concepts and ideas which bounce back and forth between the books. Yet when it comes to collected editions; Nova comes out in trade, while GotG gets a premier HC first. It's one of the reason putting me off dropping the floppies and going to the trades on this series. I'd want to read them both together, one after the next, not buy Nova and then wait the 3-4 months for the trade of GotG to come out.

Then again considering how the monthly sales of Guardians are doing, I really shouldn't drop the floppy on that one or there might be no trade in the end.

This post has been edited by Iain Clifford: 05 November 2008 - 02:32 AM

[Bamf]

Good point. I've heard the CGS guys speculate to that effect, as well. Any confirmation as to the veracity of the theory...linkage..?

I've read it somewhere but unfortunately I don't remember where. It had to do w/ Grant Morrison having something in his contract that all his material can't go X amount of time w/out being in print. That's one of the reasons why his JLA stuff is being put in the new HC format.

I was just speculating about DnA but it makes sense to me. Nova? In deluxe HC? Something has to be going on w/ that...

[iainclifford]

With Marvel's publishing profits hitting a lull in quarters between events maybe that's why they green-lit Dark Reign to hit straight after SI, got to the keep the profits up and get those trades out there. You can't stop the event machine!

If the Skrulls win, the Earth will fall to the Skrull Empire. If the Villains win, the Earth will suffer a Dark Reign. If the heroes win the status quo will return and the Marvel's share price will take a tumble.

I'm going to read SI #8 firmly on the side of the Villains. More coke-whores for Joe-Q!

[Dr. Gregski]

LOL! That's a strange thing to despise. What have you got against dust jackets?

Jim

They tend to require some minding, and special handling when using the book.

Typically if I'm reading a hardback I remove the dust jacket and put it someplace safe. When I'm done with the book I replace it. If I could laminate and bind the dust jacket to the book itself like my local library does, that would be most advantageous!

Plus it doesn't help that moron friends pull on the spine with a finger and if the finger slips - RRRRRRRRRRRRRIP!